Why Nappa and Raditz can't go Super Saiyajin

[Trunks]

Of course the most populare of the sayains will be able to transfom into Super Sayains, but what about Nappa and Raditz will they be able to aswell?
They can't turn Super Saiyan in the games because they can't turn Super Saiyan in the anime. I'd go through a whole explanation of why only Goku, Vegeta, Brolli and their offspring can transform, but I'm too lazy. I'll bring it up in a different topic one day when I need to.

I never knew that, and i thought i knew everything, please do explain in the dragon ball fourm.
Still just to be fair they should be able to transform into ouzarou or somthing.

Raditz and Nappa never pushed their limits as well as other things, and therefore never went super saiyajin. Once Vegita and Goku went super saiyajin, it made it easier for their offspring to to the same. Now I'm sure Glace will come in here and give you a more detailed description.

[Goku]

just because they dont dosen't mean they can't. so please Glace grace us with your more detailed anwser.

[Trunks]

no....i meant that they can't in budokai....

[Ignite]

Oh! Thats what you meant!

[Trunks]

i have a strange feeling that ignite is making fun of me....... :?

[Ignite]

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Glace]

just because they dont dosen't mean they can't. so please Glace grace us with your more detailed anwser.
Gladly.

There are only certain circumstances that can allow a Saiyan to transform into a Super Saiyan. They are

A: Having Super Saiyan lineage
or
B: Being a Legendary Super Saiyan

Now, Goku and Brolli both fit the second criteria. They're both Legendary Super Saiyans, as they were born on the right day. However, Brolli was born first, which is why he's referred to in most places as the Legendary Super Saiyan.

Vegeta is a decendent of the first Super Saiyan, in fact, the entire ruling part of Planet Vegeta were. That's why they were in charge. They have the blood of the original Legendary Super Saiyan in them.

The children of Goku and Vegeta can transform into Super Saiyans because they also have the blood of Super Saiyans in them.

Now, the reason Goten and Trunks transformed at such a young age, as opposed to Gohan, was because those two had been training since they were very small. If you noticed, Gohan started training when he was 4, and became a super saiyan at age 11. That's 7 years of training. Goten and Trunks both transformed into Super Saiyans at or near the age of 7 since they'd been training their entire lives.


So, the reason Nappa, Radditz, or any other Saiyan ever shown in the series couldn't go super saiyan is because they didn't have the Super Saiyan blood in them and they weren't born on the right day.

I hope that helps the rest of yall out.

[SSJ Rytenks]

Well, thats a good answer....and if anyone didnt already know that...well....your stupid....

[Ignite]

Glace are you the freakin author of the DBZ Encyclopedia?

[Glace]

Glace are you the freakin author of the DBZ Encyclopedia?
One day, my friend. One day.

[vegeta423]

just because they dont dosen't mean they can't. so please Glace grace us with your more detailed anwser.
Gladly.

There are only certain circumstances that can allow a Saiyan to transform into a Super Saiyan. They are

A: Having Super Saiyan lineage
or
B: Being a Legendary Super Saiyan

Now, Goku and Brolli both fit the second criteria. They're both Legendary Super Saiyans, as they were born on the right day. However, Brolli was born first, which is why he's referred to in most places as the Legendary Super Saiyan.

Vegeta is a decendent of the first Super Saiyan, in fact, the entire ruling part of Planet Vegeta were. That's why they were in charge. They have the blood of the original Legendary Super Saiyan in them.

The children of Goku and Vegeta can transform into Super Saiyans because they also have the blood of Super Saiyans in them.

Now, the reason Goten and Trunks transformed at such a young age, as opposed to Gohan, was because those two had been training since they were very small. If you noticed, Gohan started training when he was 4, and became a super saiyan at age 11. That's 7 years of training. Goten and Trunks both transformed into Super Saiyans at or near the age of 7 since they'd been training their entire lives.


So, the reason Nappa, Radditz, or any other Saiyan ever shown in the series couldn't go super saiyan is because they didn't have the Super Saiyan blood in them and they weren't born on the right day.

I hope that helps the rest of yall out.

I reaaly don't think that being born on the right day has anything to do with it. It has mostly to do with power levels and anger. If most of the super saiyans took an anger management class DBZ would have been through a long time ago. I think the reason that Nappa and Raditz didn't go super saiyan was because they were not pushed to that level of anger that everyone else was. Well except trunks and goten...... i neva have fiured that one out.

Goku first turns into a super saiyan because Frieza kills Krillin and that pushes him over the edge. Vegeta becomes a super saiyan because (and we all know this) he can't stand that Goku and Trunks were super saiyans and he was not and he also got to the point where he pretty much didn't give a F*ck and the anger inside him took over thus transforming him. Trunks turns into to one because his anger that Gohan got himself killed and now he was alone. And as for Gohan his anger that he has always let his friends down and if he can't help them then everyone is gonna die.

[SSJ Vash38]

I believe that glace was born on dictionary day. Anyways, I think that Turning SSJ is all an emotional trigger. Like it says up above, Vegetas anger brought his out. His hatred for Goku. Goku`s Love for Krillin when he died brought a bunch of emotions (mixed) love, hate, distrust, worriedness, women, anger, and happiness (lol _-_; )and other stuff as well all out. That brings out that to turn SSJ, you must have a reason to, not a desire to. Vegeta`s Desire must have been ungodly much, reason to why he was stronger than Goku at first in the Android saga. Thats my tid bit, correct me if I am wrong on anything. Laters...

[vegeta423]

I agree with Vash totally. It's an emotional trigger like i said before not what day someone was born.

[SSJ Vash38]

::senses vegeta423 somewhere::: << >> where are ya?! ((i got drivers ed this period and when i dont drive, i go to the library and do this illegally) _-_; Veggeto!!!

[Trunks]

well i'm glad you think that way.....unfortunately....it's not up to you....the "legend" says that they were born on the right day.....so uh....that's right.....

[Glace]

Actually... You're all wrong (cept Trunks). I'm right. You didn't understand my post, obviously. I thought you'd could fill in the lines by yourselves.

I'm right about the Legendary Super Saiyans. Brolli was born a Super Saiyan, and later powered down. Goku was born after him (on the same day), but because he was not the first, he was born a regular Saiyan. Now, even though he wasn't born a Super Saiyan, the fact that he was a Legendary Super Saiyan gave him the ability to transform into one. Vegeta, same as Gohan and Goten, had the Super Saiyan lineage. They could transform, but they needed a pure heart to do it.

And it does not take a strong rush of emotions. In fact, it takes a pure heart to transform. Goku, Vegeta, Miria Trunks, Gohan, and Goten we all know had a heart of pure rage when they transformed. Note, I didn't say evil. I said rage. Since it was never explained how Chibi Trunks transformed, one can infer it was also rage, but I won't state it as it was never said in the series.


And yes, you must have a decent power level to transform, but I'm talking specifically why other Saiyans couldn't, while the Z Warriors could.

[vegeta423]

Okay Glace and Trunks so what both of you are telling me is that to be a super saiyan you either have to have to be born on a certain day or have "family ties" with a saiyan. Now again doesn't Nappa and Raditz fall into that 2nd catergory. I pretty sure that if you go back far enough that they to have "family ties" with a legendary super saiyan or does the "family tie" stop at a certain point.

Its like this: Goku was born on the "right day". So according to this rules all of his descendants should fall into the "family tie" catergory or "lineage" as Glace calls it. Gohan and Gotenks fall into because of their dad. So natural this would continue on and on and on.

My point is from the first legendary saiyan, every saiyan after that every 1000 years should become one because of the "lineage".

[SSJ Vash38]

::giant sweat drop:: I think it could be several ways that this can be accomplished but it ALL is in theory really in my point of view. How about we call up Akira Toriyama and ask the MAN! oh yeah! :wink: lol

[IkariEvn]

being born on a "certain day" has nothing to do with anything most likely. What your saying is that everyone capable of turning SSJ was born on the same day because that day is the "right day". Becoming a SSJ has to do with a trigger of anger, not being born on a certain day. Brolli wasnt born a SSJ he was just born with a power level of 10,000. To become a SSJ you have to have a power level of at least 100,000 and have to have a large amount of anger triggered to go SSJ.

[Glace]

*sigh*

Listen to me. You have no idea what you're talking about. I don't mean to be rude, but it's very frustrating when people who have no idea what they're talking about try to argue a point with me.

Okay, no, Nappa and Radditz don't fall into the catagory. Radditz is not offspring from Goku. He's his brother. Nappa is not related to the royal line. There was only one Legendary Super Saiyan before Goku and Brolli. That Super Saiyan's family line became the ruling line on Vegeta. Vegeta is a decendent of this Super Saiyan. Which is why he can transform.

Goku and Brolli were born exactly 1,000 years after the Legendary Super Saiyan. They were the only two Saiyan children born on this day. Which is why they can transform. Brolli did not need a 'trigger' as you call it. Instead, he had the ability naturally and could control it. When I said he was born a Super Saiyan, I didn't mean he came out of his mom with blonde hair and an aura. What I meant, was that he could transform within days. Now, anyone, ANYONE who is a decendent from a Super Saiyan can transform. Which is why Goku and Vegeta Jr also have the ability.

And, yet again, I'm forced to tell you that anger doesn't trigger the transformation. A pure heart does. And a pure heart either entails having a heart of pure good, or a heart of pure evil. The DBZ and the DB definitions differ somewhat, as in DB a pure heart is said to be someone who lives a clean lifestyle. In DBZ a pure heart means you have no emotions other than peace or rage. Now, Goku achieved a heart of pure evil when Frieza killed Krillin. He was so consumed with rage at what Frieza had done to Krillin, Piccolo, Vegeta, the Namekians, the Saiyans and all the other people he'd killed, he had a heart of pure rage. I could go on about the rest of the Saiyans, but I don't really feel a need to.

Other, unconfirmed necessities to becoming a Super Saiyan do include not having a tail and having a high power level. These are fan speculations and are not backed up or said in any manga or anime. You can choose to believe them or not, but before you say for a certainty that they are, think twice. I get my information from the anime and manga. Most people on here get theirs from websites and message boards.


And yes. I'm right. You're wrong. I may sound conceited, but this is the third post I've had to make saying the exact same thing. Just for different people. It's very frustrating.

[IkariEvn]

a pure heart of evil that was caused by the ANGER from Freiza killing Krillin. If it werent for Frieza killing Krillin, Goku wouldnt have gotten pissed off, and he wouldnt have gone SSJ. Believe me, i may hate the series, but i did actually learn a lot about during the time i actually DID like it. A pure heart is needed as well as extreme rage. Goku had a pure good heart and the anger was triggered by Krillin getting slaughtered. Vegeta had a pure evil heart and the anger triggered that he couldnt go SSJ and Goku could.

[Glace]

No, Goku did not have a heart of pure good accompanied by rage. He had a heart of pure rage. That was what finally pushed him into Super Saiyan. It's nearly impossible to obtain a heart of pure good, especially since that would entail becoming a monk (a real monk, not Krillin style monk). However, a heart of pure rage would rely on violence. Such as what Goku displayed.

[vegeta423]

Just admit it Glace. You are wrong. Now you say that anger has nothing has nothing to do with it but i obviously don't agree. And I totally disagree with the whole born on the right day thing. It all has to do with emotions. Anger is what triggers the saiyan to go super saiyan. A pure heart has something to do with it also. Goku's was pure good while Vegeta's was pure evil.

[Glace]

... *sigh*

I don't care what you totally disagree with. I know what I'm talking about. You're getting your information from the dub and web sites. I can tell by posts you make on this board. I am right about a heart of pure rage. I'm also right about Goku and Brolli being the Legendary Super Saiyans.

Now listen to me. I don't know who you think you are, and why you think you're right, but you're not. I've been a fan for 5-6 years. I've done a LOT of homework on this show. I've collected, watched, read, and studied it. And you've probably only gotten a passing aquaintance with the dub and various web sites.

Why do you think Brolli is referred to as "The Legendary Super Saiyan"? Why do you think, after a millenia of Saiyans, all the Super Saiyans popped up at once? You don't think that any Saiyan before the Z Warriors ever had a heart of pure rage? You don't think any Saiyan before the Z Warriors didn't have a tail?

The fact that you don't even know about the Legendary Super Saiyans proves your ignorance completely. It's prophesized that 1,000 years after the original Legendary Super Saiyan is born, another will be. However, two were. Goku and Brolli. They were the only Saiyans born on that day.

[Psycho]

I doubt that Gokou and Brolli were the only Saiya-jins born that day because the Saiya-jin race was very big and reproduced a lot. I agree about eveythying else except that.

[vegeta423]

... *sigh*

I don't care what you totally disagree with. I know what I'm talking about. You're getting your information from the dub and web sites. I can tell by posts you make on this board. I am right about a heart of pure rage. I'm also right about Goku and Brolli being the Legendary Super Saiyans.

Now listen to me. I don't know who you think you are, and why you think you're right, but you're not. I've been a fan for 5-6 years. I've done a LOT of homework on this show. I've collected, watched, read, and studied it. And you've probably only gotten a passing aquaintance with the dub and various web sites.

Why do you think Brolli is referred to as "The Legendary Super Saiyan"? Why do you think, after a millenia of Saiyans, all the Super Saiyans popped up at once? You don't think that any Saiyan before the Z Warriors ever had a heart of pure rage? You don't think any Saiyan before the Z Warriors didn't have a tail? &nbsp;

The fact that you don't even know about the Legendary Super Saiyans proves your ignorance completely. It's prophesized that 1,000 years after the original Legendary Super Saiyan is born, another will be. However, two were. Goku and Brolli. They were the only Saiyans born on that day.

Let me explain this to you again. This info I got is of the anime just by watching and some is based of the info you have posted.

1st question off of your info..... If 1,000 years ago there was a legendary super saiyan where are his offspring? Remember you said if there is a legendary saiyan his/her children automatically have the blood of a saiyan. Now I guess you are going to tell me he/her didnt have any children and that there children didnt have any. I cant see how this legendary saiyan lineage didnt keep going on and on like Goku's and Vegeta's. The saiyans were a "very active" race so I can't see the family line of saiyans just running out. Goku's family will keep on going and so will Vegeta's.

[SSJ Rytenks]

Brolli never had kids....

[vegeta423]

Brolli never had kids....

Not Brolli the super saiyan before him and goku

[Glace]

Let me explain this to you again. This info I got is of the anime just by watching and some is based of the info you have posted.

1st question off of your info..... If 1,000 years ago there was a legendary super saiyan where are his offspring? Remember you said if there is a legendary saiyan his/her children automatically have the blood of a saiyan. Now I guess you are going to tell me he/her didnt have any children and that there children didnt have any. I cant see how this legendary saiyan lineage didnt keep going on and on like Goku's and Vegeta's. The saiyans were a "very active" race so I can't see the family line of saiyans just running out. Goku's family will keep on going and so will Vegeta's.
If you read what I said earlier, VEGETA is the Legendary Super Saiyans offspring. It's stated. His ancestor was the Legendary Super Saiyan, which is how his family came to rule. And that's why he can transform.

Next, Goku and Brolli were the only two born. Now, if any other were born, that's not known. But what is, is that if any others were, they died when Vegeta was destroyed.

[Goku]

Well thanks for that explination now i know why Nappa and Raditz can't turn super sayains. But im a little disapointed i thought all sayains had the abilty to become super sayains if they got high enough power levels and pure hearts and you know the whole deal.

But 1 questions where did you find this ifo out?

[True Saiyan]

Well I'll get in the conversation....

Well thanks for that explination now i know why Nappa and Raditz can't turn super sayains. But im a little disapointed i thought all sayains had the abilty to become super sayains if they got high enough power levels and pure hearts and you know the whole deal. &nbsp;

But 1 questions where did you find this ifo out?

knowledge my friend..knowledge... :D :D :D

__________________________________

BTW I don't agree that Vegeta's ancestors were super saiynas. I just don't. and...DOn't even start with me...I'll be sleeping before even you say the first letter. :D

[Glace]

... Don't even try to argue that point. Seriously. King Vegeta states it during a flashback Vegeta has during the Frieza Saga. He tells Vegeta that he's decendent from the original Super Saiyan and that it's his destiny to claim Super Saiyan status.

You can look for the specific episode if you want. I remember the flashback was shown in ther American Saga as Vegeta saying something along the lines of "Look at all those warriors going to their deaths" but I'm not sure what King Vegeta said. That was as they were watching Space Pods leave the planet and go into space.

[True Saiyan]

... Don't even try to argue that point. Seriously. King Vegeta states it during a flashback Vegeta has during the Frieza Saga. He tells Vegeta that he's decendent from the original Super Saiyan and that it's his destiny to claim Super Saiyan status. &nbsp;

You can look for the specific episode if you want. I remember the flashback was shown in ther American Saga as Vegeta saying something along the lines of "Look at all those warriors going to their deaths" but I'm not sure what King Vegeta said. That was as they were watching Space Pods leave the planet and go into space.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

blop!

zzz.........what.....

what were you saying? :lol:

[ghost04]

when is it stated that nappa and radditz can't go SSJ? ti remember vegeta saying that every saiyan has the capacity, with much training of course, to go SSJ. its just that it is extremely difficult. that "born on a certain day" arguement you made really has nothing to back it up at all. i have seen all of the freiza eps in japanese with subs and never heard anything about that.

[True Saiyan]

when is it stated that nappa and radditz can't go SSJ? &nbsp;ti remember vegeta saying that every saiyan has the capacity, with much training of course, to go SSJ. &nbsp;its just that it is extremely difficult. &nbsp;that "born on a certain day" arguement you made really has nothing to back it up at all. &nbsp;i have seen all of the freiza eps in japanese with subs and never heard anything about that.

agreess :)

[Glace]

when is it stated that nappa and radditz can't go SSJ? &nbsp;ti remember vegeta saying that every saiyan has the capacity, with much training of course, to go SSJ. &nbsp;its just that it is extremely difficult. &nbsp;that "born on a certain day" arguement you made really has nothing to back it up at all. &nbsp;i have seen all of the freiza eps in japanese with subs and never heard anything about that.
Re-watch it.

[IkariEvn]

ok, this thread is slowly starting to anger and bore me at the same time. They say IN THE SHOW that you must have a PURE heart. Goke has a heart of pure good. For him to go SSJ, he needed anger to trigger the transformation. Once he became a SSJ his heart was filled with hatred (which is also why he cant create a Genki Dama while in SSJ). Vegetas heart is pure evil. To become SSJ he got mad that Goku could become one and he, the prince of all saiya-jins, could not. This anger caused him to become a SSJ. I am right on this one so shut up about it now.

[Glace]

We've already agreed on how Goku and the others transform. But the point is being proven now why only they can do it.

[Psycho]

King Vegita, as you said, stated that Vegita was destined to be a super saiyan. He didn't say he was the only one. Every saiya-jin can become a super saiya-jin if the pl was right and the situation.

[Glace]

... no. I already told you the requirements.

Here, I'll make it even easier to understand.

Why do you think Goku could gain so much power, despite being a 3rd class warrior at birth? Because he was a Legendary Super Saiyan.

Why do you think Brolli was a Super Saiyan within his first year of being born? Because he was a Legendary Super Saiyan.

Why do you think the Vegeta royal line were always so much stronger than your average Saiyan? Because they were decendent from the first Legendary Super Saiyan.


Now, re-watch the Frieza Saga. Even Vegeta states that a Legendary Super Saiyan is born every 1,000 years. Goku was that Super Saiyan. You can choose to count Brolli or not, since his movie couldn't have happened in the DBZ time line. But the fact remains that even Vegeta said that a Super Saiyan was born every 1,000 years.

[Psycho]

Yeah but there is a major fault in your evidence. Goten, Trunks(Marai and Chibi),Vegita, and Gohan all go super saiya-jin in less that 15 years. Whats up wit that!

[Trunks]

as glace said before.....they are offspring of super saiyajins....goten and trunks were also probably training since they were born............

[SSJ Rytenks]

&nbsp;I can turn ssj!

Yeah and I can twist my neck around 52 times while eating my foot with a fork stuck up my nose.

[SSJ Rytenks]

Maybe your kinda SSJ means Super Saiya-jerk. Nah jp.

[SSJ Vash38]

Hah, it actually means That I can eat ten of the SUPER SONIC Jalopeno burgers. (hint the first letters) ^^;; SSJ burgers! GO Sonic americas food!

[Glace]

Yeah but there is a major fault in your evidence. Goten, Trunks(Marai and Chibi),Vegita, and Gohan all go super saiya-jin in less that 15 years. Whats up wit that!
They were all trained to go Super Saiyan, or (and this is just a theory) if your father could go Super Saiyan when you were concieved, it's easier for you to go.

[Psycho]

exactly. just a theory.

[Glace]

No, the last part of what I said was just a theory. Everything else is fact.

[Trunks]

psycho.....stop bickering.....you're not argueing.....you're bickering :?

[vegeta423]

I have argured with Glace enough. It's a battle that you can't win. Because he won't admit defeat.

[SSJ Vash38]

Lets have a rp battle on the mb. Come on!
:snipersmile: .:x-mas:

[vegeta423]

Lets have a rp battle on the mb. &nbsp;Come on!
:snipersmile: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; .:x-mas:

Whats's that??

[SSJ Vash38]

Ok glace....Ok.....

[SSJ Vash38]

Role play as in fight on the mb which is message board.

[vegeta423]

This isn't Glace!!!

[SSJ Vash38]

I wasnt talking to you!! I was making a dumb statement to glace.
:snipersmile: :x-mas:

[Glace]

I have argured with Glace enough. It's a battle that you can't win. Because he won't admit defeat.
If I'm wrong I admit it. I just don't usually get into an argument unless I'm sure of what I'm saying.

[IkariEvn]

Lets have a rp battle on the mb. &nbsp;Come on!
:snipersmile: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; .:x-mas:

how about lets not and say we did. I have already deleted multiple role-playing posts.

[Trunks]

yeah....they are really retarded when not in an RPG

[Glace]

I used to run an RPG at dbah.tk but I got tired of it. It's too much work to maintain one during school.

[GOHAN]

RPG's suck

[Trunks]

wow....that sure was an intelligent post.....

i like rpg's. they have great stories.....

[GOHAN]

are you saying I am an unintelligent faggot?

[Trunks]

haha

where did faggot come from? Feeling guilty?

and no....i am not insulting your intelligence.....just your simple seemingly-bullheaded "RPG's suck"

[GOHAN]

well, they do

[Trunks]

play final fantasy 7 .....if you give it a chance i guarentee you you'll change your mind....

[Glace]

There was a DBZ RPG by the name of Legend of the Super Saiyan. It was a good RPG.

But if he doesn't like RPGs, then you can't change his mind most likely. I don't like puzzle games, never have. He doesn't like RPGs, he may never like them.

[IkariEvn]

DBZ Legend of the Super Saiyan was a very easy game.

[Glace]

I never said it was hard. I just said it was good.

[Trunks]

puzzle games don't seem to have a point to them.....i don't like them either....

[GOHAN]

No, I don't like email/message board RPG's. nintendo rpg's are fun

[SSJ Rytenks]

Website or message board RPG's are gay. Video game RPG's kick ass.

[Python_AE]

I have to agree with you Rytenks, although not every Video Game RPG kicks ass

[Glace]

Some website RPGs are good, but they're hard to find. I had one at dbah.tk, and the site is still up. I found a free place to host it, but it was too much work to run with school and all. But dbah.tk was still a great one. I've run 4 RPGs, and 3 have gotten the maxpages #1 site award. And the last one, dbah.tk, wasn't up long enough to get anything.

[TheOne]

what ever happened to the Super Saiya-jin discution?

Well, I got a question for you glace.

If all decendence of previous Super Saiya-jins can go SSJ, why can't Pan?

[Glace]

She can. She just never does.

[The Evil Vegeta]

One question, if Nappa did go SSJ, would he grow hair?

Another question, if Raditz also went SSJ, would you think that he would be mistaken for a SSJ3?

[Glace]

They can't go Super Saiyan. Though if they did, I don't think Nappa would grow any hair unless he had little buds on his head. And if he went Super Saiyan 3 he'd get a beard instead of just a moustache probably...

[The Evil Vegeta]

A glowing beard?

*imagines the super-powerful hair*

[vegeta423]

They can't go Super Saiyan. Though if they did, I don't think Nappa would grow any hair unless he had little buds on his head. And if he went Super Saiyan 3 he'd get a beard instead of just a moustache probably...

Nappa reminds me of Mr. Clean. Most super heroes are not bald neither are the villians. I can just imagine him going super saiyan 3. He would grow a beard with a goatee and all that.

[SSJ Rytenks]

Haha....Nappa does look like Mr Clean...if Nappa went SSJ3...well I wonder whatd he look like if he went SSJ3 before he got his hair cut...so when he had hair what SSJ3 would look like on him.....

[SSJ Vash38]

He probably wouldnt grow any hair. Instead, his bald head would shine more and more until it was as bright as the kitchen floor that just got mopped.

[vegeta423]

He probably wouldnt grow any hair. Instead, his bald head would shine more and more until it was as bright as the kitchen floor that just got mopped.

Too funny Vash too funny. I wonder if any saiyan could turn "monkey" off of his shinning head. It would resemble the moon a lil.

[SSJ Rytenks]

Im talking about what if he went SSJ3 when he had hair...not when hes bald...duh....

((to Vash))

[nukeboy35]

a big factor of why they never turn super saiya-jin is because their dead. ive also heard that having a tail releases energy and by removing it will not let energy escape you and when you have too much energy it will grow back to let some out. thats why when they turn ssj4 they grow their tail back or when gohan gets really mad. its kinda confusing :?: :?

[GOHAN]

a big factor of why they never turn super saiya-jin is because their dead. ive also heard that having a tail releases energy and by removing it will not let energy escape you and when you have too much energy it will grow back to let some out. thats why when they turn ssj4 they grow their tail back or when gohan gets really mad. its kinda confusing :?: :?


To be fair, goku had his tail before he went SSJ4

[Glace]

a big factor of why they never turn super saiya-jin is because their dead. ive also heard that having a tail releases energy and by removing it will not let energy escape you and when you have too much energy it will grow back to let some out. thats why when they turn ssj4 they grow their tail back or when gohan gets really mad. its kinda confusing :?: :?
Wherever you read that, it's a fan assumption. It's never stated anywhere that that is true. And they had their tails before Super Saiyan 4, it's why they went Golden Ouzaru.

[saiyankid]

This is for Glace
: How can Trunks(chibi) go Super Saiyan because of lineage ,because, if I remember right Vegeta didn't transform until after Trunks was born :snipersmile:

[SSJ Rytenks]

This is for Glace
: How can Trunks(chibi) go Super Saiyan because of lineage ,because, if I remember right Vegeta didn't transform until after Trunks was born :snipersmile:

AHH!!! Thats right. Wait...yes thats correct cuz Trunks was like 1 and Vegeta had turned SSJ a few months ago...so like Trunks was born before Vegeta went Super Saiyajin. WOW I never thought of that!

[Trunks]

that would have worked if you were talking about goku.......but unfortunately.....trunks carries the royal blood that vegeta does from the decendants of the original super saiyajin.......

[SSJ Rytenks]

that would have worked if you were talking about goku.......but unfortunately.....trunks carries the royal blood that vegeta does from the decendants of the original super saiyajin.......

Oh oh oh! But what about Gohan. He was only like 12 or 13 when he did it and Gohan was born way before Goku went SSJ. So explain that Glace.

[Trunks]

ok...maybe i was wrong about goku.....

since goku had the potential.....in was in gohan blood or genes as well

[Glace]

....

It's in the persons genes. If you're a decendent of someone who could transform, you can too. Which is why Vegeta can. His dad wasn't a Super Saiyan, but his great great great (carry on for 1,000 years) grandfather was. The person doesn't have to be a Super Saiyan when they have their kid, they just have to have the potential to become one.

[pilaf_killed_kenny]

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I disagree. The only requirements for becoming Super Saiyajin are a sufficient power level and motivation (example : extreme emotions) and a pure heart. The heart can be pure good (Goku) or evil (Vegeta) the first time the Saiyan transforms, and after that, he can transform at will. Raditz and Nappa never achieved enough power to go SS, and besides their hearts weren't pure good or evil, but a mix of mostly evil and very little good, so it would not have worked.

They can't go SS in Budokai because it is true to the series, of course.

[GOHAN]

Ya see, the thing I don't under stand, is when people say super saiyajin, but use SS instead of the better one, SSJ. And you missed one requirement - Saiya-jin Blood. And also, Vegita had good in his heart, he just never let it show.

[Glace]

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I disagree. The only requirements for becoming Super Saiyajin are a sufficient power level and motivation (example : extreme emotions) and a pure heart. The heart can be pure good (Goku) or evil (Vegeta) the first time the Saiyan transforms, and after that, he can transform at will. Raditz and Nappa never achieved enough power to go SS, and besides their hearts weren't pure good or evil, but a mix of mostly evil and very little good, so it would not have worked.

They can't go SS in Budokai because it is true to the series, of course.
Sorry. You're very very wrong.

[SSJ Rytenks]

....

It's in the persons genes. If you're a decendent of someone who could transform, you can too. Which is why Vegeta can. His dad wasn't a Super Saiyan, but his great great great (carry on for 1,000 years) grandfather was. The person doesn't have to be a Super Saiyan when they have their kid, they just have to have the potential to become one.

Ok well how did Gohan go SSJ at such a young age? He was born before Goku went SSJ. Gokus decendents were low class so I dont see how thats he got it. So explain to us Glace, how Gohan went SSJ so young.

[Glace]

Goku's ancestors don't matter. He's a Legendary Super Saiyan, so he automatically canceled out the low levels in his family genes. Now, a mix between a Saiyan and a Human always makes an extremely talented child. You can see this by watching Gohan keep up with the Z Warriors throughout DBZ despite being up to 20 years younger and only a kid. Now, once Goku and Gohan were in the Room of Spirit and Time, Goku coached Gohan on how to transform.

Gohan and Trunks being born before their fathers went Super Saiyan has nothing to do with whether or not they can go Super Saiyan.

[Octavius]

Glace, I feel for you. As I read all of these posts, it's so clear that you actually know wtf you are talking about while everyone else rehashes the same, nonsensical information over and over. I don't claim to be a guru of DBZ in any way, but judging from what some of these people have said, I guess I knew more than I thought. For example, GOKU IS A LEGENDARY SUPER SAIYA-JIN! HIS KIDS NOW HAVE THE ABILITY TO GO SSJ! VEGETA'S ANCESTOR 1,000 YEARS AGO WAS A LEGENDARY SUPER SAIYA-JIN! HIS DESCENDANTS NOW HAVE THE ABILITY TO GO SSJ! KEYWORD "ABILITY"!


P.S. Completely ignore Brolli because his movie was just an add-on that means nothing to the official storyline of DBZ.

[saiyankid]

This is for Glace
: How can Trunks(chibi) go Super Saiyan because of lineage ,because, if I remember right Vegeta didn't transform until after Trunks was born :snipersmile:

AHH!!! Thats right. Wait...yes thats correct cuz Trunks was like 1 and Vegeta had turned SSJ a few months ago...so like Trunks was born before Vegeta went Super Saiyajin. WOW I never thought of that!

Sorry SSJ Rytenks but I was wrong even though Trunks was born before Vegeta became a super saiyan Vegeta still passed super sayian blood onto Trunks

[Goku]

P.S. Completely ignore Brolli because his movie was just an add-on that means nothing to the official storyline of DBZ.

Now im not argueing with this whole ledgendary ssj thing but, you learned all about how goku and brolli are ledgendary super saiy-jins from a brolli moive right? If so then if you ignore Brolli dosn't that mean you have to ignore every thing youve been talking to. If not then never mind.

[Octavius]

no because in the actual series goku is acknowledged as the legendary super saiya-jin, while brolli doesnt exist to the tv show

[SSJ Vash38]

Glace has been right the whole time and a few people keep arguing with him. Glace gets his information from keyword: 'reliable sources'
Glace, which thread was about me and you playing HD?

[Glace]

Somewhere in the Video Game forum... I'd completely forgotten HD with Budokai around :shock:

[nukeboy35]

....

It's in the persons genes. If you're a decendent of someone who could transform, you can too. Which is why Vegeta can. His dad wasn't a Super Saiyan, but his great great great (carry on for 1,000 years) grandfather was. The person doesn't have to be a Super Saiyan when they have their kid, they just have to have the potential to become one. great great great (carry on for 1,000 years) grandfather how was he able to turn super sayia-jin

[Octavius]

omg, i cant take this...

HIS GREAT GREAT (GO ON FOR 1000 YEARS) GRANDFATHER WAS TEH PREVIOUS LEGENDARY SUPER SAIYA-JIN IN THE NAME OF CHRIST ITS NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND!

[pilaf_killed_kenny]

....

It's in the persons genes. If you're a decendent of someone who could transform, you can too. Which is why Vegeta can. His dad wasn't a Super Saiyan, but his great great great (carry on for 1,000 years) grandfather was. The person doesn't have to be a Super Saiyan when they have their kid, they just have to have the potential to become one. great great great (carry on for 1,000 years) grandfather how was he able to turn super sayia-jin

Hey, if it were 1,000 years ago, then the same guy could have been both Vegeta's and Goku's great, great, great, great..... etc. Grandpa, making them cousins.

I'm still pretty sure the whole bloodline thing is not right, though. I think that even the Daizenshuus themselves state the requirements for SSJ as being a sufficient power level, a pure heart, and extreme emotional fits.

[Glace]

If you go back far enough, everyone in the world is related. Be it from a single celled organism or from the mythological beliefs of Adam and Eve. However, containing a bloodline isn't so hard. For royalty, all they'd have to do is have one child. And make sure that child always has one child.

[pilaf_killed_kenny]

If you go back far enough, everyone in the world is related. Be it from a single celled organism or from the mythological beliefs of Adam and Eve. However, containing a bloodline isn't so hard. For royalty, all they'd have to do is have one child. And make sure that child always has one child.

True, but it doesn't always work that way. I had a teacher in high school who said he was a descendant of the first King of England. He went on to explain that one out of every ten people is his descendant because he had lots of illegitimate children. lol

[Octavius]

what difference does it make if goku and vegeta are related, they both have the blood of a legendary super saiya-jin in themselves

[Glace]

If you go back far enough, everyone in the world is related. Be it from a single celled organism or from the mythological beliefs of Adam and Eve. However, containing a bloodline isn't so hard. For royalty, all they'd have to do is have one child. And make sure that child always has one child.

True, but it doesn't always work that way. I had a teacher in high school who said he was a descendant of the first King of England. He went on to explain that one out of every ten people is his descendant because he had lots of illegitimate children. lol
Saiyans are consumed by pride and honor. If they had an illegitimate kid, I'm sure they'd either kill the mother with the kid, or kill the kid. Of course, no one knows what actually happened, so…

But I know I'm not his descendent. I don't have any English blood in me, just Irish, German and Scandinavian.

[pilaf_killed_kenny]

If you go back far enough, everyone in the world is related. Be it from a single celled organism or from the mythological beliefs of Adam and Eve. However, containing a bloodline isn't so hard. For royalty, all they'd have to do is have one child. And make sure that child always has one child.

True, but it doesn't always work that way. I had a teacher in high school who said he was a descendant of the first King of England. He went on to explain that one out of every ten people is his descendant because he had lots of illegitimate children. lol
Saiyans are consumed by pride and honor. If they had an illegitimate kid, I'm sure they'd either kill the mother with the kid, or kill the kid. Of course, no one knows what actually happened, so…

But I know I'm not his descendent. I don't have any English blood in me, just Irish, German and Scandinavian.

Norman the Conqueror was actually of Normandy descent, but enough about him. Where did you read that the Saiyan has to have a certain bloodline to become Super? I didn't see it in the Daizenshuus.

[Octavius]

Glace learned it from being an intelligent DBZ fan who actually understands WTF HES TALKING ABOUT!

[pilaf_killed_kenny]

Glace learned it from being an intelligent DBZ fan who actually understands WTF HES TALKING ABOUT!

That's all well and good, but there is no arguing with the Daizenshuus.

[Octavius]

well as far as im concerned, i also observed the same thing as glace, and theres no arguing with...THE SHOW!

[GOHAN]

well as far as im concerned, i also observed the same thing as glace, and theres no arguing with...THE SHOW!

The show has lots of things added, you know. The Daizenshu is your most reliable source

[Glace]

Here is my proof:

Vegeta says a Legendary Super Saiyan appears every 1,000 years, and that Goku was that Saiyan

Brolli and Goku were born on the same day

King Vegeta told Prince Vegeta that they were decendent from the orignal Super Saiyan

Goku has an innate ability to gain power quicker, faster, and more efficiently than any other Saiyan in existance, once again, stated by Vegeta and proven by being the strongest Saiyan ever. This includes Vegeta, who is decendent from a super saiyan. And this is also despite being the son of a 3rd class warrior, and being born with the power level of a 3rd class warrior. The lowest possible.

Goku and Vegeta's offspring (Gohan and Trunks who were born before their fathers were Super Saiyan) transform easily, and with barely any effort. If it were so easy for any Saiyan to transform, the entire Saiyan race would have already, long ago.

Akira Toriyama himself states that Movie 8 was an attempt to explain why Goku could transform to Super Saiyan and other Saiyans could not, through showing how Brolli was a Legendary Super Saiyan and he was born with Goku.



Finally, the daizenshuus were written by Toei. Not Akira. So even though they are licensed, the show takes precendence over them. The final way to show what part of DB/Z/GT takes dominance over others are:

1. Manga is the most reliable. It was written entirely by Akira.
2. The anime. The anime is sometimes counted seperately from the manga because Toei did write parts of it, then send them off for approval by Akira. In short, some of the scenes appearing in the anime but not in the manga were not written by Akira, but by Toei
3. The daizenshuus are the 3rd most because they were written by Toei. Not Akira.

[Octavius]

either way, i know im right, i dont care what you guys say becuase i know im right

[vegeta423]

Goku and Vegeta's offspring (Gohan and Trunks who were born before their fathers were Super Saiyan) transform easily, and with barely any effort. If it were so easy for any Saiyan to transform, the entire Saiyan race would have already, long ago.



How do you know when trunks was born? I thought that there was no definite date on that? He was only a couple of months old at the beginning of the android saga.

[Glace]

Trunks was alive during the beginning of the android Saga. Bulma stated then that she hadn't seen Vegeta for a long time because he'd been training in outer space. So she would have carried the baby for 9 months, and he was probably about 4 months when the saga started. Vegeta arrived on earth and announced he was a Super Saiyan. If he had been a Super Saiyan before that he would have told them.

[Majin DAve]

Yeah, hes right. But does that mean someone can become a super Saiya-jin out of pure happiness? Thats interesting.

[Glace]

Because the transformation requires a pure heart, it's possible a heart of pure good would lead to a transformation. But you have to look at the Saiyan race. They're a naturally agressive species, even the most docile (Goku) still had violent tendencies. A heart of pure good would mean you wouldn't want to fight, meaning it would take someone along the lines of Ghandi to achieve it. Very rare.

[vegeta423]

Because the transformation requires a pure heart, it's possible a heart of pure good would lead to a transformation. But you have to look at the Saiyan race. They're a naturally agressive species, even the most docile (Goku) still had violent tendencies. A heart of pure good would mean you wouldn't want to fight, meaning it would take someone along the lines of Ghandi to achieve it. Very rare.

I have to agree with Glace again. I can't imagine someone like Ghandi turning super saiyan.